tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post2052781269147418418..comments2024-03-24T08:30:43.258+01:00Comments on FLY HIGH!: THE WHITE QUEEN BY PHILIPPA GREGORY - "We have killed certainty in these cousins' wars and all that is left is mistrust"Maria Graziahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08876779286144473782noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-49775965633437214362011-09-28T13:46:54.337+02:002011-09-28T13:46:54.337+02:00New follower!
I really enjoyed this book, and I en...New follower!<br />I really enjoyed this book, and I enjoy most of Philippa Gregory's novels. She adds a lovely element of fiction to history, and makes very memorable characters. Here's my review:<br />http://myjournalofbecomingawriter.blogspot.com/2011/07/white-queen.htmlJacquihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17094051760535537661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-71942790138208403602011-09-27T16:24:24.141+02:002011-09-27T16:24:24.141+02:00I love so much interesting literary discussion. I ...I love so much interesting literary discussion. I confess I have not read The sunne in splendour yet. Therefore, I cannot compare the two books, but I think that all historical fiction writers add something to the story they're telling. They have to fill the gaps, they provide a unique voice for what is only partial historical reports. Of course, there are historical novels with a good historical background and other with hardly any historical insight. But if a book can raise interest in the reader and promote curiosity and hunger for knowledge...well it is a book worth reading. <br />As far as PG's book is concerned, I find Melusina citation repetitive, too. What I like most was the idea of confusion: during such years as those, you were never sure who the was the bad guy and who the good one. You almost no one you could trust. Interesting thing to consider before judging.maribeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01559927224289036163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-9936438686113091412011-09-26T07:26:30.614+02:002011-09-26T07:26:30.614+02:00I enjoyed your review, MG. I have only read some o...I enjoyed your review, MG. I have only read some of Phillipa Gregory's 'Tudor' books and found it an interesting experience in itself to discover her 'take' on characters whose lives have been pored over for centuries. 'The Boleyn Inheritance' deals with the little known wives of Henry VIII - Anne of Cleves and Katherine Howard. PG admits that the dearth of information about them made it a challenge to write the book. As for Wolf Hall - I can't wait for the sequel.Elisabeth Storrshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02808281191985275826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-45804910822804198812011-09-25T21:38:50.876+02:002011-09-25T21:38:50.876+02:00Well, what can I say? I've been off line and o...Well, what can I say? I've been off line and out for my Sunday family gathering and look at what I've brought forth! As K/V suggests I'll write more about the books I don't like than of those I like if this is the result! Thanks for this interesting discussion and for all your contributions. We don't have to share the same opinions, having different ones make reading and sharing much more interesting. Don't you think so?Maria Graziahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08876779286144473782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-26119668555529808882011-09-25T17:58:29.394+02:002011-09-25T17:58:29.394+02:00well off course when you read Mrs Gregory you must...well off course when you read Mrs Gregory you must remember that is just historical fiction and a lot of details are pure romances...but for me Mrs Gregory it's the best..her descriptions are absolutely unique!Alessia Carmicinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00271145285279773779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-33751999560117146822011-09-25T17:16:49.602+02:002011-09-25T17:16:49.602+02:00I listened to this on audio whilst driving and fou...I listened to this on audio whilst driving and found it a pleasant way to pass the time, although I'm by no means a War of the Roses expert.<br /><br />The supernatural elements were annoying for me too, especially as the narrator would adopt a throaty, 'mystical' voice for them. And I wasn't convinced on the boy swapping.<br /><br />I always enjoy your very in-depth reviews!Sam (Tiny Library)https://www.blogger.com/profile/16375434438465319913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-25314721156594766152011-09-25T15:38:05.450+02:002011-09-25T15:38:05.450+02:00wow *_*wow *_*cooksappehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07910606066663232341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-73669271905661664942011-09-25T15:37:06.633+02:002011-09-25T15:37:06.633+02:00Ms. Gregory's books might be more tolerable if...Ms. Gregory's books might be more tolerable if she didn't promote them as "historical" but settled for "historical fantasy", given the distortions of facts she repeatedly indulges in. At the beginning of The White Queen, she devotes a lurid paragraph to the horrors of being found out a witch in England. Every assertion in there is totally wrong. Someone practicing witchcraft could only get in trouble if they used their skill to commit a civil crime (in which case they would be tried by a civil court as a common criminal) or with the Church if they used wrongly worded charms, for which they would receive penance, not the death penalty. The list of other gratuitous misrepresentations of medieval life and attitudes in The White Queen and The Red Queen is far too long for here, but her contempt for historical fact is shown by having Queen Elizabeth take sanctuary in the crypt of St. Margaret's church. Contemporary records state outright that in taking sanctuary from Gloucester, she went into the abbot of Westminster's (luxurious) dwelling -- not into the crypt of a neighboring parish church. Besides, at that time a crypt would have been full of bodies, not a residential space, and the idea of a tunnel from there to the river is unutterably preposterous. Equally preposterous is the notion that sanctimonious Margaret Beaufort would have taken as her heroine a French heretic. An author can develop her characters however she best sees fit, but to distort history and ignore medieval realities to the degree Ms. Gregory does reduces her books from "historical" to "farce".Margaret Frazerhttp://www.margaretfrazer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-12540488948680470802011-09-25T14:02:28.250+02:002011-09-25T14:02:28.250+02:00In my humble opinion, comparing the work of Sharon...In my humble opinion, comparing the work of Sharon Kay Penman to that of Ms. Gregory's is rather like comparing fine dining to fast food. Both can fill you up, but the first is more complex and ultimately satisfying. For me, Ms Gregory's novels have always left me wanting more historical detail and facts. I never felt swept away into the era. With Ms Penman's novel, I take up full time residence.<br /> And as an aside, there is a new Sharon Kay Penman novel ready for release in the next few months.Terry Stantonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-5084297372501691532011-09-25T14:01:17.786+02:002011-09-25T14:01:17.786+02:00It can be difficult to understand and portray wome...It can be difficult to understand and portray women (or men, for that matter) of another era. I've enjoyed many of the author's books, but find that they lack depth, so can emphasize with those elements that dissatisfied you, MG. <br />As for Elizabeth W, it is worth remembering that England had been through a couple of decades of civil war, which divided families and loyalties, with the result of much dishonourable and questionable behaviour, which is puzzling to the modern reader. (It oughtn't, as in any era of turmoil/war/threat, we will probably always react to threat by doing whatever to survive and ensure the survival of those closest). I enjoyed Sunne, too, but did not find, at the end, that the writer had provided a VIVID portrait of Gloucester. It is the writer's responsibility to persuade the reader to a sympathy for the protagonist(s). Poor Margaret Beaufort has not enjoyed an historically sympathetic reputation either! The legend of Melusine was promulgated to explain/condemn the Plantagenets' fearsome tempers and ruthlessness by their Angevin ancestors' descent from a "witch", this Jacquetta was accused and briefly held under arrest, thanks to the Woodeville enemies...<br /><br />A Ricardian too, I would like to see a balanced historical biography - or portrayal of that king. Warts and all!<br /><br />fitzgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-32628373645321273862011-09-25T13:19:30.752+02:002011-09-25T13:19:30.752+02:00WOW, Lunarossa! What a passionate defence of MS Gr...WOW, Lunarossa! What a passionate defence of MS Gregory's work: she'd be honoured to have such a dedicated fan - and so many others, from what I hear :)<br />I wish I had the language skills to explain my P.O.V., but it's clear that what you mostly admire in her ("beautiful language and writing style") is exactly what I don't like. And probably this is WHY I adored Ms Mantel's style, while you couldn't even finish reading her novel.<br />Well, MG, you should be glad to have raised a literary discussion: why don't you post more negative reviews in the future? ;-)<br />xx K/VAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-28886154039949563952011-09-25T13:01:14.817+02:002011-09-25T13:01:14.817+02:00Hi MG, There is so much to say about this subject!...Hi MG, There is so much to say about this subject! I'm sorry you did not like the White Queen. To tell the truth I do not think PG's aim was to make the Elizabeth's Woodville character a sympathetic one. As she explained in her many talks introducing the book, too little is known about the Plantagenets and you cannot make a whole character out of the simple facts you have at your disposal, but you have to elaborate with your imagination. And the result is that you do not always like the main characters. Same is for her second book of the Cousin's Wars series, The Red Queen. You finish the book feeling a deep dislike for the very manipulative Margaret Beaufort, Henry VIII's grandmother. I was not very happy about the depiction of the Duke of Gloucester either and I actually asked her about this and she said that she did not want to take a stance about him being a controversial figure who was very often ambiguous and incoherent in his actions (especially when he took the throne) and wanted the reader to decide. The Sunne in Splendour is a beautiful book but you cannot expect it to be historically accurate, as much as I like it to be! PG researches her books very carefully from the historical point of view. She mentions the legend of Melusina, that you did not like, mainly because there is a thread running through the historical records associating Elizabeth and especially her mother Jacquetta with witchcraft and that's why she has based several scenes on that. It is important that we modern readers understand that religion, spiritualism and magic played a central part in the imaginative life of medieval people. The use of playing cards to predict the future was a medieval practice, alchemy was regarded as a spiritual and scientific practice too and herbalism and planting by the phases of the moon was well known in most of households. All in all I was quite intrigued by PG’s three books about the women involved in the Wars of the Roses and I'm looking forward to her next book about Anne and Isabel Neville. I like her beautiful use of the English language and her writing style. I would recommend you to read The Constant Queen about Catherine of Aragon, my favourite PG’s book. I’m sorry to say to you and Val that I was rather disappointed by Wolf Hall. I found it hard work, difficult to persist with and rather irritating. The narrative was broken, with regular loss of context and of whom we are talking about, resulting in much re-reading of text. I felt I had to finish the book because of my love of the period, but even the end seemed out of place. Reading for me should be a pleasure and not a chore and this is what I felt that book was for me. Apologies for this exaggeratedly long comment but as you know, this is a subject I care vey much about! Ciao. A.xlunarossahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15231055955991137579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-78291086728820453412011-09-25T12:35:06.230+02:002011-09-25T12:35:06.230+02:00Making a good review is easy, as you like the book...Making a good review is easy, as you like the book, you like the story and words come alone... But I'm sure this isn't one easy writing, being honest and try not to hurt other people's feelings about their work. <br />I couldn't be able to set the differents between reality and fiction in this particular matter but I know and read your other reviews and confide in your instincs and your knowledge. <br />So thanks for your review.Laurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13908560471560257675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-78887266528842006002011-09-25T11:45:32.788+02:002011-09-25T11:45:32.788+02:00@K/V
Thanks a lot, K/V. You know, Wolf Hall is on ...@K/V<br />Thanks a lot, K/V. You know, Wolf Hall is on my wishlist. A nice Sunday to you, too!Maria Graziahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08876779286144473782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-50605069634637387182011-09-25T11:26:18.269+02:002011-09-25T11:26:18.269+02:00If you really want to find anything good in Ms Gre...If you really want to find anything good in Ms Gregory's work, MG, please DON'T read "The Other Boleyn Girl". <br />By reading that *** you won't sympathize neither with "the other Boleyn girl" (Mary, which is very dull indeed ;-) nor with the "Official Boleyn girl" (Anne, which is as scheming and plotting as we already know: not a hint of humanity in her, I'm afraid).<br />On the same subject (the Boleyn girls and much, much more) I can highly recommend a different novel: Wolf Hall, by Hilary Mantel.<br />Have a nice Sunday,<br />xx K/VAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-86111955187362757472011-09-25T11:01:07.983+02:002011-09-25T11:01:07.983+02:00@Alessia Carmicino
Thank you, Alessia. I really wa...@Alessia Carmicino<br />Thank you, Alessia. I really want to give Ms Gregory another chance. I've seen "The Other Boleyn Girl" in two different adaptations and I think I'll pick that one up among your suggestions!Maria Graziahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08876779286144473782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-1090279772907579102011-09-25T10:48:33.656+02:002011-09-25T10:48:33.656+02:00you must read the other boleyn girl, the boleyn in...you must read the other boleyn girl, the boleyn inheritance and the queen's fool!these are philippa gregory best novels, all settled in the tudor period!Alessia Carmicinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00271145285279773779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-62648166053710853862011-09-25T10:47:56.980+02:002011-09-25T10:47:56.980+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Alessia Carmicinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00271145285279773779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5114395886235179043.post-51605690639826157562011-09-25T10:47:32.333+02:002011-09-25T10:47:32.333+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Alessia Carmicinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00271145285279773779noreply@blogger.com